Yeah, but the thing is, nobody was talking about feeling pain anywhere. I don’t really know who you were talking to there, because the last few posters have definitely read the first chapter of the Bible. Is it too hard to post about what we’re actually discussing?
On a side note- I’m all for preserving the environment, until it gets in the way of people. Not in the way of something like an aristocrat’s next pleasure palace, but in the way of things like housing, churches, and utilities.
Being a hunter, I want it to stick around for as long as possible. However, given that that is impossible, I would rather have people live than animals.
That is where fanatical environmentalists get me (I’m not calling anyone here one of them, by the way), by saying things to the effect that we should return nature to the way things naturally were, before Man.
Heck, if they are so fixed on eliminating Humankind, I’d be glad to start with them.
Dont try to argue against me unless you read ALL of this
That’s actually makes you sound ignorant. That’s not what global warming is. Global warming is the unnatural warming of the earth. I havent seen Al gore’s movie, but i’ve seen global warming with my own eyes.
It used to snow in texas, but it’s progressively stopped over the course of my 15 year life. When i was about 4, we could get 2 inch snow. For the last 5 years, we’ve had little to absolutely no snow. And they said due to global warming, it’ll probably never snow again.
We have definite proof of global warming, and whether you deny it out of fear, or laziness, it’s very real, and is happening. I dont beleive in exterminating the human race, but i do believe in smarter solutions. Such as
Using that shitty Mcdonalds oil as fuel
Making all factories and electronics solar powered
Stop fucking cutting down the rainforest, make recycling absolutly mandatory
having all production controlled by machines
The only reason that global warming isnt being cracked down upon, is because the people in power know they wont be alive to feel the effects. But their children will, but their parents wont be around to be sorry. It’s a process of laziness that will exterminate us. I think that Nuclear war will be the earths way of recycling itself. And hopefully, 1 million years from now, whatever’s left of the human race will be smarter.
@metroid slayer: Preserve the enviornment, unless it gets in the way of the people??? We need the enviornment, the enviornment woukld be better off without us. People over animals?? Animals were fine until we showed up, but if we died off, absolutely no animals would give a fuck. Being on top means we rely on everthing this planet has to offer, but that doesnt mean we can treat it like our property.
Humans in general are way to selfish, or global warming wouldnt be much of a problem. Hummers cause intense pollution, but why do people buy them??? Because they look cool. We’re selfish, we want for ourself, no thinking about the consequences on the enviornment.
In not saying we can be perfectly clean, nor we should try to be. Im just saying that if people in general gave half a damn about the earth, then we wouldnt be doomed like this.
Ah, the sweet voice of reason. How many times have I said that?
Exactly. People suck because we are selfish, greedy bastards who don’t give half a damn about our environment so long as we have money and cool stuff.
That is also true. We’re dependent on everything else here and in short we are fucking it over, thus fucking ourselves over. And MS, when you say unless it gets in the way of housing, churhes, and utilities, here’s my answer: WE HAVE ENOUGH FUCKING HOUSES, CHURCHES, AND FACILITIES. My neighborhood used to be a small, quaint place in suburbia, but as of late retarded contractors have been building these huge three story houses all over the place. Now our small roads are being flooded with cars which shouldn’t be there and the stress put on our electric system because of these new developments is even worse. 9/10 storms we have makes us lose power for days because we have too much wiring going around. And about mother nature taking itself back, maybe that hurricane “Katrina” was actually a message to us dipshits: take care of our land (the everglades and wildlife preserves which were there before most of the city was built) or die of stupidity. Personally I couldn’t have it any other way. If human kind is to perish in the next 10-50 years then lets just speed up the process and let the universe go on without us. After all, it doesn’t need us does it.
Okay, I don’t like how stupid people often are, either. If you think I want more houses, you are wrong. But what to do? Cull babies to eliminate the need? Say “You- have sex with her and have one and only one child. Multiples will be killed.” Sure, Big Brother! Lets do our duty!
How such a simple point evades you people can be amazing.
Also, people are just as old as animals in my belief. Agree or disagree however, we are naturally superior to animals. We are smarter and can use tools to make ourselves stronger than any animal on the face of this Earth.
But, just as badly as you say people suck, animals suck just as much. Recently, while trying to kill the crows at my great-grandfather’s house, I saw two crows raid a finch nest. Before the parents could return, the crows had killed some of them. Wow, they are so much better than us!
I kill deer swiftly with a bullet to the shoulder. A wolf kills them slowly and excrutiatingly by starting at their hindquarters and eating them alive, guts first. Hey, they are regular gentleman!
Nature isn’t kind, nor loving. In fact, nature is the opposite. What isn’t in top physical condition dies. By shooting a deer, I would be saving it from dying from starvation due to overgrazing, disease, and being killed by wolves/coyotes when it is old. Nature. I kill, I eat, I live.
That’s right. Just as people are overstressing this planet, deer would do the same. In fact, in areas where we have killed off most of their predators, and little hunting is done, deer don’t thrive. They suffer. Those that live are stunted, as their own numbers have swelled too much for the land they occupy. Thus, many starve.
You see, all of nature would “suck” should they be put in our position.
EDIT: Maybe you are not thinking clearly or something, but it snowed once in Mississippi when my parents were young (30 years ago) and it hasn’t snowed since. Not global warming, given that the temperatures haven’t increased. The winter temperatures haven’t dropped enough to freeze water into snow, but according to records, it should soon be time for Mississippi to get another snow. That is, summer temperatures have literally stayed the same, but winter hasn’t had the chain of events it needs to snow down there.
Global warming isn’t slight environmental fluctuations- it is true, permanant warming. If it happens, I will acknowledge it. But, so far, the only proof that I have of its existance is your rantings.
Snowing down here is a rare occurence. That is very unsteady ground you stand on, saying that the abscence of a freak (down south, that is) occurence means that the Earth is warming up.
I have so much to rebuke here that it isn’t even funny.
Maybe we should limit our reproduction? Like you said, the deer are multiplying so fast that they run out of resources and die. That’s what we are doing right now, isn’t it? With all of the divorces and single mothers we are producing a “surplus population,” many of whom will die because of two possible outcomes:
- The mother can’t provide for them and they starve, or of course they live in a third world country and starve anyway.
- Something the human race does as a whole dooms them along with everybody else.
And don’t go strutting around saying that I’m pro abortion. Abortion is cold blooded murder, but if we limited offspring we wouldn’t have to kill them now would we?
Just because we don’t see things your way doesn’t mean you’re absolutley right.
Yes, that’s true, we are superior, but that doesn’t mean we can just ignore them. Think about it: We can be the strongest, smartest creatures on the planet, but what do we do if the animals all die because of us? What do we eat? Do we become vegetarians and die beause we don’t get the protein we need?
I could turn that “missing the point” comment right back at you here. Not once did anyone to my knowledge say that animals were better than us. Yeah, things die, violently and quietly, but that’s life. Everyone and everything does it, so it’s not like you can gauge anything’s importance by saying how “bad” it is. Besides, at least animals and their natural course don’t doom everything like we can. Your right, animals aren’t smart enough to build atomic bombs. So, in a sense, you must be wrong anyway because human kind can be so much worse than nature.
Yes, nature does suck, all of it, but like you said we are smarter than animals and other aspects of nature. If we just halted being retards for two little minutes we could change all of that because we have the power to do so. Why don’t we? Because we’re impulsive pricks. We haven’t surpassed nature, the sin, the mindless murder and evil. That’s what we’re fighting against, but to me it seems like we’re losing badly.
Yes, we are losing.
And, I too would like to limit population growth (obviously not by abortion). But think about it. Who is even the President of the United States to tell you and your wife what you can do together? That said, we are very close to the point where such a thing would be completely necessary. Sad, but true.
Really, people just being logical could solve that problem. But, we usually aren’t. Restraint is all we need, but so few of us posses it.
I never said that I ignore animals. Really, I help them as much as anyone here by keeping their population under control. Getting up at 4:45 to hunt crows doesn’t just happen by accident.
A human dying cleanly by a nuclear blast (that is, not by radiation) is no where near as bad to me as one killed by wolves (on a one to one ration). Wolves don’t instantly kill, a nuke does. Really, I’d rather die of even radiation sickness than by a wolf.
We’ve surpassed nature, as in animals, yes. But as in our sin nature, that we will never do by ourselves.
Where do you think those animals got their protein? Vegetarians can have a healthy diet if they just get enough variety.
like tofu 
My grandfather knew a vegetarian. Apparently he ate all kinds of foliage, but he looked really sickly all the time. I think he died in his 60’s or 70’s…
Yeah, you’re right, but the variety you need would have to be alot in order to stay healthy in the way you think of it today.
MS, personally, i probably have more of your bull to rip at than gold leader. But i’ll keep it sweet and to the point.
Oh my fucking god. That’s called preference. Being killed by a wolf is fine. Why? Because it’s natural, and “god” intended wolves to kill. A nuke is a cruel weapon that does intense damage to the enviornment, and kills everything within its range (which is huge). I dont care what you’d rather be killed be, because the nuke was created for selfish purposes anyway.
People were intended to eat meat. Whether your evolutionist, or creationist, humans descendants ate meat at the base of their diet. Vegetarians can be perfectly healthy, but cant be as strong and healthy as omnivores with balanced diets. Vegetarians dont have as much endurance, nor will there muscles or bones reach their full potential, as opposed to those with balance. Death is a fucking natural part of our fucking existence. Animals must kill to survive. The only reason some of use choose otherwise is because we invented something called “morals”. Morals put a better restraint on society, and create order. But order wouldnt be necessary if we werent so intelligent. But manufactured concepts like that dont appeal to me.
No offense, but i happen to hate people who hunt. Your not doing shit helping keep their population under control. If people didnt exist, would their population be skyrocketing?? No. It’s our goddam fault for killing their natural predators, then we try to justify hunting by saying we’re doing the job for them.
Humans just fuck up what would work perfectly otherwise. I’ve accepted teh fact that humans are just to dense to save. Hopefully, machines will replace us.
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I have to completely agree on this one. How violently one dies doesn’t really matter. It’s the amount of damage dealt and the aftermath. Think about it: a wolf eating someone is bad, sure, but at least that person is only one person and is being recycled back into the lifecycle. A nuke on the otherhand doesn’t recycle, it obliterates. The energy stored up in those that it kills is completely wasted and the damage it does can be serious to the rest of the ecosystem. Yeah, selfishly creating a nuke was yet again one of mankinds most infamous faults.
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Yeah, screwing up the environment. That’s us. “Let’s clear some marshlands for homes! Hey, we’ll be getting rid of mosquitoes and other bugs and that’s good right?” Wrong. All of the creatures they kill are not redistributed and the animals which rely on those in the imediate area starve. Happened near here. Turns out a certain bird stopped migrating to this area because there wasn’t any food left because all of our housing developments choked their food supply.
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The moral of the story.
Your statements are called preference too, genius.
Something that isn’t preference or opinion, however, is that hunting saves animals. The money we pay for hunting licenses goes to conservation. Evil, huh? If you think that hunters don’t keep animal populations under control, ask my family. About a hundred deer and turkeys, and thousands of squirrels and doves have died at our combined hands. Did we “fuck up” the environment? No, we helped it. The areas we hunt, we keep in check.
Since the early 1900’s, when hunting licenses and conservation efforts were intertwined, the population of all American game animals has skyrocketed. Now, we have mostly healthy populations, all thanks to who? That’s right, hunters.
What have you been doing about our animals? Twiddling your thumbs and moaning at us? Letting them starve instead of humanely killing them?
First you say we are natural carnivores. Then you say you hate people that hunt. Please, this forum is for SENSIBLE people.
A nuke doesn’t kill everything within its range, either. It kills most of it, but not everything. And, compared to people’s suffering, I honestly couldn’t give a rip about what the environment’s state is. Once again, you are putting animals above people. Unlike animals, we actually can think. We have emotions, and can reason (most of us can, at least). We have invented repeating firearms and computers; turkeys still poop on their legs to cool off while we use the AC.
Animal life does not equal human life.
EDIT: Also, you wish that machines, a MANMADE invention, would replace us. Have you had a lobotomy or something?
There is far more “bull” in your words than mine.
I’m sorry Metroid Slayer, but to me it seems like everybody is missing everyone else’s point.
Ok, you keep animals in check by hunting, right? Ok, that’s good, but the thing is if we weren’t here you wouldn’t have to! Nature would do it by itself. See, we’re the factor which unbalances the whole scheme of things.
Once again, they wouldn’t starve if it wasn’t for us.
I think you should realize that there is a difference between inelligence and common sense. Just because we’re smart doesn’t mean we don’t act stupid. In some ways, though very small, we have to be inferior to animals in regards to productivity, or cleanliness, or efficiency, or quite possibly common sense. For example: some animals don’t want to get run over and stay away from roads. Some of us don’t have that sense of self preservation and commit suicide. Suicide is stupid because it’s a waste of a good life. So there you go, we can be stupid too.
Yes, animal life does not equal human life, but we require animal life, so just counting them out or something hurts us as well.
I think my arguments make sense, but the problem is human kind is here and we’re stuck with it. Quoting from MS, we can’t just sit here and twiddle our thumbs while we destroy our planet along with ourselves.
I think we have more or less come to agreement.
While nature is quite capable of maintaining itself, man is one part of it that that doesn’t hold true for.
I only wish humans would always act like they are above animals. I don’t believe I ever said explicitly or implied that we do, but correct me if I am wrong.
EDIT: You probably see this, but the only time I “count out” animals is when they negatively interfere with humans.
I realize that we rely on each other, which is why I try to maintain their overall health.
I see what you mean here, but we humans do alot of stupid things that get in the way of animals (like building something we don’t really, absolutely need [like even more 3-story houses] in an area where animals are normally contained, away from humans. Then, when we move in, we call them the invaders and push them out. If it continues like that, where will they go?)
That is what I hate to think about.
Personally, I think what should happen is that people should realize what’s going on, and, instead of having kids like crazy, try to maintain our population, or maybe even decrease it a little. It has already been said here, however, that people are especially prone to abandon logic for lust, thus creating the situation you spoke of.
Honestly, our species doesn’t need to continue growing at this ludicrous rate. There is no doubt that we are now the dominant species of Earth. To fulfill our goal of having both people and wildlife in abundance, however, would be hard. Nations would have to have smaller armies to preserve nature. In a place like the US, however, this could be a good thing. For example, if we maintained our population, the US Armed Forces would have to adopt a mentality even more centered on quality over quantity, making even better soldiers possible, with plenty of them available as an added bonus.
But such is the daydream of a fourteen year old. People don’t think logically like that all the time. The really scary part, though is this- I don’t know if I could act sensibly either, given the same situation.
The basic problem i was trying to state (stated by gold leader though), is that the laws of balance dont apply to humans. Hunting may do some good for the enviornment, but if we hadnt fucked it up in the first place, we wouldnt have to worry. Native americans are a good example of humans blending seamlessly with the enviornment. Of course, while we have greater technowledgy now, it’s still very possible to take at least SOME damn consideration with what we do. We cant live without the enviornemtn being in relative balance, but we can live without hunting (for sport), building new shopping malls, and destroying marshes.
People dont know how to fucking prioritize. They put themselves above everything else (an attitude i particullarly despise in christians), without realizing that their lives depend on maintaining the balance. I beleive that the enviornemnt should be put secondly after National defense, but before schools, churches, and cities.
Note: If you feel i used the S word to many times in the below paragraph, i will edit and remove it at a Mods command
Overpopulation. Do you know why i think abortion is a good idea?? It’s murder, but there’s no other option to control population. Sex. People like sex. Adults like sex. Teenagers like sex. There will be sex. You cant stop it. There will also be lack of suffficient birth control. There will be orphans, illigetimate children, and rightful children. I love the way china has a limit on births, and i beleive we should as well. But since people like to have sex, there will be more pregnancies. For some of the children, Abortion would have been a mercy, and hopefully, the parents will feel guilty, and never make the mistake again. I see it as the lesser of two evils.
Common sense isnt so common. Teenagers smoke weed all the time, and they know it’ll kill them. They drive fast cars, but know they can die in an accident. Have sex, ignoring that they could have a child.
If humans (in general) werent so damn ignorant, then there wouldnt be problems like there are in the world right now.
Who’s up for sending a superior group of humans up into space to take control of the world later? (Moonraker reference, jk!)
But really, we can’t just sit here and whine. We’ve got to get off of our asses and do something. Just looking at all of this makes me feel like I’m to blame, so yeah, I definately want to change it.
In what way? Do you mean they (more or less we, because I am) preach something and don’t follow it? Ergo the environment or life? Or do you mean the air of snottiness? (Yes, I’ve run into the alot, escpecially in the church parking lot >_>)
Lol. That’s not exactly what i meant. I mean, Christians using Religion as an exuse not to give a shit about the enviornment (im not generalising, just making a statement). Here’s what i mean.
The bible pretty much says that the earth was created for Man, and that Man was created in gods image. He is there chosen people, therefore, nothing bad will happen to them. This has givin people a mentality i cant stand. They beleive they can trash our planet, and everything will turn out great because they read some damn book (please dont take offense to this, i was angry when i wrote it). I cant stand people who put faith above all else, like living their goddam life.
“And besides, so what if we all die. I go to heaven, cause im a damn good christian!!!. Animals dont have souls, so it doesnt matter if we kill them!! All that matters is worshiping my god, and whatever else the fuck i feel like.”